IndianaRunner

[Drake]

Here you can discuss Tim Hofmeister's training.

Feel free to ask questions, make comments, critique or just read!

Tim will likely chime in and answer.

Here you can find his latest blog entry:
http://indianarunner.com/TimHofmeisterTrainingBlog2011.aspx

[MetaphoricalMark]

Hey guys, this is Tim. I'm very excited to talk about just about anything on here (within reason, of course), and I'm open to any questions or comments you may have.

But as exciting as Kent Garrett's training blog will surely be, let's just go against the preliminary post on this one and just stick to conversations about my training in this thread.

[iwearperushortshorts]

Why GVSU?

[MetaphoricalMark]

Awesome question.

I chose GVSU for quite a few reasons. Here are the big ones:

1. I wanted to run in college. I didn't get recruited by many places: I only talked to GVSU, Purdue, and Wabash. So almost right there it was down to three schools. Eventually, I narrowed my search to Purdue and GV, the only variable being if I chose to major in Spanish or Engineering. I chose Spanish, and the GV Spanish Teaching department is better than Purdue's, seeing as there is a chance that that program may not exist in the future at Purdue.

2. I already knew two people that were at GV, and they have experienced a lot of success. Paul Zielinski (Columbus North class of '07) and Anthony Witt (Shakamak class of '08) are there, and they both came from PAAVO programs in high school. So coming from a PAAVO program as well, I knew that I could have possibly enjoy a good amount of success at GV.

3. It's a very successful program. The Lakers placed 3rd at D2 nationals last year, only behind Adams State and Western State (Both in Colorado) . It's pretty amazing how GV does it as well, using almost ONLY kids from Michigan, Indiana, and Illinois, while the other teams recruit internationally. GV also has a very long conference (GLIAC) title winning streak. I'm a very competitive person, and this most certainly is a competitive program that is trying to improve enough to win its first national title.

4. The stress fracture rate on the team is very low. This is a big deal for me, as I have had some trouble with this througout my high school career. I actually met with Coach Baltes yesterday and this came up. This past track season one of the older guys on the team got a stress fracture, and he was doing everything he could to try to figure out why it happened or how to tweak the training a bit so it doesn't happen again or to other guys. This is a big thing for me, as I would be a much better runner if I hadn't been hurt so long or so much.

5. The campus is great. The school is only 50 years old, so the majority of buildings look brand new. It's a big school (about 24,000) but the campus really seems kind of small. Also it's five hours away, so I think that it's the perfect distance. Close enough for a one day drive home for the holidays, but too far for your parents to come up and make a surprise visit. I think that's a nice quality

6. The class sizes are not too big. For example, I tested into the 300 level of Spanish yesterday at orientation. When I was registering for classes, the Spanish class that I was signing up for capped at 20. It's much easier to learn when there are only AT MOST 19 other kids in your class and the professor knows your name.

That's a lot of the reasons why I chose GVSU. I hope that answers your, or anyone else's, question.

[Run_4_Life]

I'll give you some love on here

So one question I have... is what kind of bike do you have?

[MetaphoricalMark]

haha thanks Run_4_Life. I was gettin' kinda bored... haha

Really I know 2 things about my bike: 1. It' silver, and 2. it's a Schwinn. It has the average size city cruising tires, ( i dont know what they are actually called, i just know that the bike doesn't have road or mountain bike tires) so I can go decently fast, but nothing great. For example, last week I was pedaling pretty hard and some old guy with a good road bike passed me and he didn't look like he was trying. So once I got past the initial embarassment, I decided that I could pedal a little harder.

But I'd say that although it's not the best bike on the planet, it gets the job done as I can get a fairly good workout when I have to ride it.

[Run_4_Life]

I know that road bikes are very expensive, so if you don't have the funds for even a lower end one it would be understandable as most people don't, but with all the riding you do I think you would really enjoy one!

I think I have a bike somewhat similar to yours, the kind of "hybrid," as they call it, because it isn't a road bike nor is it a mountain bike.

Also I have another question. How big is the incoming class to GVSU, and who are among the recruits other than yourself? (I was talking to the coach of GVSU for a while... so I am just a little interested :p )

[MetaphoricalMark]

It's kind of funny, this actually came up when I was talking to coach baltes last week. The freshman class on the team at GV this year is HUGE. I don't remember the exact number, but I think he said it was 23, for the guys and girls combined. It definitely makes things pretty interesting.

From Indiana, the runners that I know are going there are myself, Nick Schrock (Carmel), Zach Rutherford (Carmel), Michael Bobos (Valpo), and for da ladies Jordan Chester (Boone Grove).

[steburg]

So what exactly is the Paavo method of training? Do you feel that this training is what led to your repeat stress fractures?

[MetaphoricalMark]

Good questions.

First off, I want to make it clear that I absolutely have no regrets about my high school career. Although I had a lot of injuries and I never realized a lot of my potential in high school, I learned immeasurable amounts about myself, life, running, and being successful. Therefore, to give you a straight-up answer to your question, I firmly believe that the PAAVO program DID NOT lead to my injuries.

What a lot of people don’t realize about the PAAVO program is that it is not only a training program, but it is also a lifestyle. The program and camps are named after the Finnish (as in from the country of Finland) runner Paavo Nurmi. He was the greatest runner of the 1920s, as he could run anything incredibly well, ranging from the 1500 to the marathon. In his training, he would do anything that he could to get better, which included chasing trolley cars so that he could run faster.

This is the philosophy that the PAAVO program has. It can be broken down to a few quotes:
1. “We (PAAVO runners) do things that other runners won’t, don’t, or can’t do.” (Spartan attitude)
2. “Hard work, given time, will beat talent.”
3. “Extra effort is the key to success.”
4. “The PAAVO runners thrive on the parts of the sport that others despise.”
5. “Every day is a great day (to get better).”
6. “We never had so much fun working so hard.”

These quotes really sum up the way the PAAVO system is supposed to be approached. I guess if I had to define CNXC in a few quotes, it would look like this. We run to get better every day, and it’s about striving to become the best that we can be, individually and collectively.

But if you are looking for something tangible, here is what a week of training in the offseason would look like:

MONDAY: Long run day (The longest continuous (non-stop) run of the week)
The distance really varies with different training levels. I know a lot of people don’t think that the program is individualized, but it definitely is. Obviously, the higher training level a runner is, the more miles he or she will run on long run day. Makes Thursday (the LPPM) easier.
TUESDAY: Short PPM day (Shorter, faster hard run)
The PPM (pace per mile) is a cornerstone of the training program. This is an opportunity for the runners to run fast, and test his or her boundaries. Again, the mileage varies from runner to runner, depending on training level. The range is from 1-4 miles. Even if a guy is doing 80 miles a week, he will only do 4 miles on SPPM day. Pace? As fast as you can go for that mileage. Gives Thursday (LLPM) the potential to be faster
WEDNESDAY: See Sunday
THURSDAY: Long PPM Day (Longer, faster hard run)
THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT DAY OF THE WEEK. I put that in all caps because it is that important. Thursday is the day that the rest of the week revolves around, as the Long PPM will give the runner the most benefit in races. All runners go farther than a 5K distance, so everyone is accustomed to running all out farther than the race distance. Again, this is ALL INDIVIDUAL, as everyone’s all out is different and a lot of different training levels are out there. The goal is to make Thursday as fast as possible, so that the runner can race as fast as possible. Pace? All out, baby
FRIDAY: See Sunday
SATURDAY: Timed Mile day + Long Day (The highest TOTAL mileage day of the week)
Pretty self-explanatory. You warm-up, then run a mile as fast as you can (usually on the track). This helps Tuesday, as it can make the Short PPM faster, which, as we know now, can make the super-important LPPM faster. Then you do the most miles of the week on Saturdays. It can be broken up into as many runs as desired. It would be kind of stupid, but theoretically you could do 11 1 mile runs to get 11 miles (one-one-one!!). This makes the long run on Monday not seem as daunting or as difficult.
SUNDAY (WEDNESDAY and FRIDAY): CT (Critical Threshold) day (The term recovery loosely fits)
These are the days in between workouts. The goal on each of these days is to maintain the ever-improving oxygen delivery system. Theoretically, one is supposed to run 45 seconds slower per mile than PPM pace. Obviously, no one is perfect, so this is just a benchmark or the basic idea for the run. The 45 seconds per mile is based off of the CLOSEST PPM pace. So if your SPPM is 4 miles, and you’re doing a 3 mile run, you would base it off of you short. Same idea if your LPPM is 8 and you’re doing a 7 mile run, then you would base off of the long.

Well, I hope that answers a lot of questions, because I think I have carpel tunnel hahaha. If you are still reading, pat yourself on the back. If you skipped all of that and are just reading this line, shame on you. Go to the kitchen, get some delicious fruit snacks and Sunny Delight, and read this post. But if there are more questions, ASK AWAY!!!!

[steburg]

Well there's no Sunny D in my house, so it's a good thing that I read the whole thing the first time. Those quotes you listed kind of describe my attitude about training, so PAAVO makes sense to me. Thanks for the long response, but I have a few more questions. What was the highest peak mileage you got up to during your high school career? You don't have to name names here, or even answer this question if you don't want to, but what kind of mileage are your teammates at CN running? Would your coaches decide what mileage everyone would be at or would you guys talk about it and come up with a number together?

[MetaphoricalMark]

Haha I was just kind of making fun of myself for the long response. I just got on a roll, and when I looked at it before I posted I realized that there was a ton of text there.

The most miles I ever did in a week was 80 my senior year. I guess you could say that I "peaked" at that, as that was the last week of summer. However I was consistently at 70 miles/week last year in the summer, and 60 during the season.

For the most part, the mileage is based off of your age, experience, and any injury problems. The mileage for guys on the team varies quite a bit. For example, we have some guys who are running about 40 miles, and last year one of my best friends was consistently at 90 a week, so it differs quite a bit. We have a lot of guys who are at 70 right now, and those guys are only juniors and seniors.

Deciding the mileage is a joint effort between the coaches and the runners. Usually a conversation (or multiple conversations) about things like how many miles you should do in a week, what mileage on the PPMs that the runner should be doing, and the progression of the mileage and PPMs takes place between the coaches and the runner. A lot of times a training group is developed, and so a lot of guys usually go after the running together.

I hope that answers your questions, but if you have more, don't hesitate to ask!!!

[Colin]

How can you put names on Patriots AND Jets players in your training journal? I thought we were cool.

[sbrcross]

How do ppm runs compare to tempo runs?

[MetaphoricalMark]

Colin: haha sorry about that. I was just trying to come up with names really fast, and those were just what popped into my head. I didn't realize i was that AFC East loaded. But I'd say the best way to get back at me is to beat me in fantasy football(like that's possible ). And you better be joining our league because I'm actually playing this year!

sbrcross:
Well, I don't know a lot about what exactly a "tempo run" is, but I tried to do a little research on it. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on any of this. From what I gathered, I would say a tempo run is where a runner tries to run a certain pace for a certain mileage. That pace is estimated at a certain percentage of what the athlete is capable of, and is usually about 80% of all-out race pace for that athlete. The goal of the tempo run is not to necessarily run a blazing fast time, but to maintain a consistent pace throughout the duration of the mileage.

If all of that information is correct, (seriously, if that's wrong, tell me) then PPMs are quite a bit different. The goal of a PPM is to run as fast as possible for a certain mileage. For example, I probably could have run a 4 mile in 22:30 at "tempo" pace, but seeing as I was doing a PPM,I was shooting for under 21 minutes every tuesday.
Also the way that a runner COULD run a PPM is different. A PPM is what you make it; I could start out slow or I could go out blazing fast. If I was shooting for a 5:20 pace PPM, I COULD start out under 5:00 for the first mile, or I COULD startout at 5:30, it doesn't really matter. The goal of the PPM is solely to try to maximize the oxygen delivery system by trying to run as fast as possible for that certain mileage.

So I guess if I had to make an analogy, PPMs are to tempo runs as oranges are to grapefruits: they are closely related, however they do vary quite a bit. I hope that answers your question, but if it didn't then just tell me and I'll try again!!!

[1bob11]

Are the ppm's what gets you guys into crazy good shape crazy early? How did you deal with running all out twice a week in the off season? It sounds pretty brutal to me.

[Luke_for_duke]

Here you can discuss Kent Garrett's training.

Feel free to ask questions, make comments, critique or just read!

Kent will likely chime in and answer.

Here you can find his latest blog entry:
http://indianarunner.com/TimHofmeisterTrainingBlog2011.aspx

I just now noticed this, but it says "Kent Garrett's training" where it should read "Tim Hofmeister training"
I'm not sure if anyone else caught that, but I thought you might want to fix it!

[Run_4_Life]

But as exciting as Kent Garrett's training blog will surely be, let's just go against the preliminary post on this one and just stick to conversations about my training in this thread.

Here you can discuss Kent Garrett's training.

Feel free to ask questions, make comments, critique or just read!

Kent will likely chime in and answer.

Here you can find his latest blog entry:
http://indianarunner.com/TimHofmeisterTrainingBlog2011.aspx

I just now noticed this, but it says "Kent Garrett's training" where it should read "Tim Hofmeister training"
I'm not sure if anyone else caught that, but I thought you might want to fix it!

[MetaphoricalMark]

Are the ppm's what gets you guys into crazy good shape crazy early? How did you deal with running all out twice a week in the off season? It sounds pretty brutal to me.

PPMs definitely get us in shape. I wouldn't say they get us in great shape "crazy" early, as Columbus North pretty much NEVER fades down the stretch, but it is unquestionable that they get us in good shape early in the season, as they are excellent training runs.

Actually, in a lot of weeks, we would go very hard THREE times a week in the offseason: Tuesday, Thursday, AND Saturday. One Saturday last summer we had 7 guys under 9:50 in a timed two mile; that was a pretty good day. Running that hard at least two and a lot of times three times a week is very challenging: AT FIRST. Just like anything else in life, the first week on a new program is very tough. However after about three weeks, it is not as hard any more. Granted, the PPM program is still very tough, but after awhile you really want to get back on the starting line and run faster than what you ran last week, or run farther than last week, or, best case scenario, run farther and faster than last week. It takes about three weeks to build up a glycogen base, so then you can start to feel better after hard runs. Then running hard multiple times a week isn't nearly as hard as it was in the past.

The way I see it, if you do what everyone else does, you become just like everyone else. And I don't know about you guys, but I definitely DO NOT want to be like everyone else; i want to get ahead of them. This training program has definitely made us different than almost every other team in the state, and if the last two years in XC are any evidence, I'd say that we got ahead of just about everyone else.

So you are right; the program is brutal. But we gladly embrace the struggle, approach each and every run with optimism and the desire to get better, and we believe that it has made us a lot better than if we had done something else

[Flo-Rida]

So you are right; the program is brutal. But we gladly embrace the struggle, approach each and every run with optimism and the desire to get better, and we believe that it has made us a lot better than if we had done something else

Perhaps this is the best part of the program. With that mindset, you can be successful anywhere. When you get 40+ guys to buy into that... then you can make something really special happen... like making a run at the national title.

[TheChasePack]

The way I see it, if you do what everyone else does, you become just like everyone else. And I don't know about you guys, but I definitely DO NOT want to be like everyone else; i want to get ahead of them. This training program has definitely made us different than almost every other team in the state, and if the last two years in XC are any evidence, I'd say that we got ahead of just about everyone else.e

So what your saying is that CN does not due the Paavo program since several other teams in the state do the Paavo program by the book. If you are doing something different then everybody else then you are not doing the same Paavo program as everybody else?

[MetaphoricalMark]

Sorry it has taken me so long to get back to you. I've been pretty busy the last few days so I haven't had much computer time.

TheChasePack, technically, you are correct. There are most definitely other teams in Indiana that run the PAAVO program, such as Perry Meridian, Providence, and some others. However, since the seemingly overwhelming majority of the state is so anti-PAAVO, and those teams subsequently utilize a different training program (which could be very good by the way; not trying to bash anyone's program here), then the PAAVO program in itself is different than what everyone else does. So I guess what I'm saying is that the PAAVO system in its entirety is what is different than what most other teams do.

[IR_BrettFavre]

You have explained Paavo better than anyone else I have ever seen on this site. It actually makes sense the way you explain it. I have heard so many different things about Paavo. Glad to finally hear it from someone who was in the program.

[XCrunner123]

You have explained Paavo better than anyone else I have ever seen on this site. It actually makes sense the way you explain it. I have heard so many different things about Paavo. Glad to finally hear it from someone who was in the program.

Exactly what I was thinking.

So from what I understand, you basically run 5k race pace for longer than the race in order to get used to it?

[1bob11]

You have explained Paavo better than anyone else I have ever seen on this site. It actually makes sense the way you explain it. I have heard so many different things about Paavo. Glad to finally hear it from someone who was in the program.

Exactly what I was thinking.

So from what I understand, you basically run 5k race pace for longer than the race in order to get used to it?

No, you run whatever distance you run as fast as you can. You don't run 5k race pace for 4-8 miles which is impossible by the way.