IndianaRunner

[Cash]

I've been answering a lot of questions about the college recruiting process and I have been assisting quite a few students with finding a track and field program at the next level. I think it may be helpful if I share some information and experiences, as well as answer questions that some of you may have. I'll also hop on here and sound off from time to time.

But the main point of this is helping high school athletes find a place to run at the next level, and have them understand what is really important to consider.

I am not claiming to know everything, but I can and will work hard to find an answer to any question that you may have.

[Cash]

NCAA Division 1 track and xc programs
http://web1.ncaa.org/onlineDir/exec/sponsorship?sortOrder=4&division=1&sport=MTO

NCAA Division 2 track and xc programs
http://web1.ncaa.org/onlineDir/exec/sponsorship?sortOrder=4&division=2&sport=MTO

NCAA Division 3 track and xc programs
http://web1.ncaa.org/onlineDir/exec/sponsorship?sortOrder=4&division=3&sport=MTO

NAIA Men's programs
http://graphics.fansonly.com/schools/naia/member-services/championships/Qualifcation_Plans/qual_plans_pdf/qual_MOTF.pdf

NAIA Women's programs
http://graphics.fansonly.com/schools/naia/member-services/championships/Qualifcation_Plans/qual_plans_pdf/qual_WOTF.pdf

Junior Colleges
http://www.njcaa.org/colleges.cfm

[Cash]

Just bumping this to the top. I am getting tons of phone calls and emails from coaches and athletes alike, but no one has posted on this thread. Just an observation.

And just to clarify, I am not running a business. Do not offer me money. And I will not refer anyone to a recruiting sevice. To be frank, I think that they are all bogus.

[XCspectator]

I am a parent who four years ago helped/guided my son thru the recruiting process.

Some observations, in no particular order of importance:

1. Except for the elite, top few in the state, you need to approach this like a job search. Most times coaches won't seek you out, you need to express interest.

2. Keeping with the job search theme, you need to get a resume together and network. We wrote a letter that highlighted my son's accomplishments, both running and scholastic and community.

3. Talk to your student about their academic/career goals and their aspirations for running at the next level. Chose a number of schools that fit the profile, with some tilted towards academics and some to running.

4. We chose, if I remember, about 10 schools, maybe less. We looked up the e-mail address of the distance coach or head coach, maybe both. After drafting a resume letter of introduction, we asked our head coach to e-mail the college coach. Using our head coach was a great reference and networking tool

5. We got positive responses from a private major DI school, a public DI major school, a public DI mid-major, a private DI mid-major, and a top DII program (athletics and scholastically)

6. I strongly recommend personal visits, offical or unofficial.

7. Unless you are elite you will find few fullride scholarships. Often they will help you piece together an academic aid or other scholarships. We found out that Michigan schools have a program to award in state tuition to out of state qualifiers, which is a B average. Some of the universities offer a full in state tuition waiver, some, like MSU and U of M offer less than 100%, but still substantial reductions.
Coaches often can get instate tuition waivers. Not a full ride, but opens options.

8. Consider DII, DIII as well as DI



Anyone who has questions can PM me. We know we made the right choice. Whether luck or the process I don't know.

[greenidtlc]

Just came back from our third unofficial visit with my daughter and here's some things we talked about on the drive home this evening:

Meet the team as well as the coaches - they will become a family of sorts to you and it helps if you like your new "family"

Make sure you're visiting schools that have what you want to major in and don't be one of the "undecided" ones - know what you want to do after college, even if that may change once you get there

Dorms - can you sleep without air, share a bathroom with a whole floor full of people, eat in the cafeteria for an entire school year?

You get five official visits - don't waste any of them on a school that you really don't think you'd end up going to

And I have to agree with the previous post of treating it like a job search. If you're interested let them know. Send them updates on your season on a regular basis. Know a little about their team and ask questions about them when you talk to the coaches, especially if you have a face to face meeting.

[bullet]

First off, athletes, make sure this is something YOU have given deep thought about. Not just your parents. Think about how busy you are going to be with school and athletics and make sure you ready to make a serious commitment. College can offer many different experiences. Make sure you find out what else the college offers not just on an athletics level. You may change your mind during your college experience. I went and visited as many colleges as I could Sr. year and never really knew exactly what I wanted to do. Started off going to Depauw to play football. Changed my mind last minute and decided to go to IU freshman year and pledge a fraternity. Did all intramurals freshman year and ran in IU's Little Fifty. Sophomore year decided I wanted to run track/cc for IU. Walked on that summer and ran my sophomore year. Then decided I wanted to just party Junior year and enjoy college. And thats exactly what I did. Senior year I wanted to Ride in IU's Little 500 bike race. And that is just what I did. IU offered everything I could imagine. Make sure you find a school that can offer more than just D1/2/3 sports. And most importantly make sure you HAVE FUN during the process!

[Cash]

To go along with XCspectator's post (#7), I am providing the following links:


http://www.top-colleges.com/blog/2009/12/31/numerous-colleges-waive-out-of-state-tuition-fees/
http://www.usnews.com/articles/education/paying-for-college/2009/12/23/how-to-get-in-state-tuition.html

[XCspectator]

This post needs to be bumped regularly. Not sure if there is a way in this forum but the admins need to stick it to the top.

[XCspectator]

Because of TV exposure and the internet, many high school students overlook Division II ( or Division II or NAIA). Let's face it, most runners won't make it to NCAA DI or would no thave a good experience. As you move on and up in life it is a pyramid, with less room at the top. But it doesn't mean you can't continue running, improve, and have an impact in other NCAA levle programs.

Here's a link to why Grand Valley State choses to remain DII. Seems like a rational alternative to the excess of DI, where Title IX kills many men's XC, track, and swimming programs due to the numbers of football players.

http://www.gvsulakers.com/links/qatimselgo.html

[freebs]

I am the parent of a high school senior interested in running D1 in collge. We are beginning the process of official visits. Do you have a list of questions that you recommend a runner ask on the visit?

[creamytrack]

Questions I would recomend.

1. What kind of progress are your athletes making. IE are your athletes getting beter, worse, injured in your program.
2. What is your injury rate?
3. Do you offer my child major? How is program ranked? Does it lead to the degree your child likes.
4. What is the training like?
5. What is expected of a scholarship athlete in your program?
6. How do you support athletes in their accademics?
7. What is your graduation rate for athletes?
8. When discussing scholarship: what is being offered? More important: What is the bottom line my son or daughter will be paying to come here. if a school can not tell you that, then you need to be carefull. If you do not have a written offer with what your balance due is and what you need in loans, I would think long and hard. People throw around terms like full ride and you need to make sure you understand what the scholarship means at that school.
9. If my son or daughter gets hurt can they loose their schoalrship?
10. Do you increase/ decrease scholarship based upon performance?
11. For moms: Is the campus safe?
12. For yourselves: How do I fit in at this school?
13. For Yourself: How do I stack up athletically in this division? ( IE yes you can run D-1, but you could be a D-II, D-III, NAIA All American) does that matter to you? Does the level of scholarship equal to what you can do for this particular team?



That should be a good start for you, but if you need some more ideas I can give you some more.

[RockyMtnHigh]

I am the parent of a high school senior interested in running D1 in collge. We are beginning the process of official visits. Do you have a list of questions that you recommend a runner ask on the visit?

We just went through this process last year, and here’s my advice:

1) Let the runner be the point person and the lead in contacting coaches, setting up visits…basically everything involved in the process. Be there for support and help if they ask, but otherwise stay out of the way and let them do it.
2) Not too long ago someone posted a link to an article about the recruiting process from the point of view of a college coach (Jay Johnson, ex asst. at Colorado). If you haven’t read it, I would highly recommend you do. Excellent information on what to expect. I can’t find that article, but here is a similar one on how scholarships are given in D1 programs on the male side: http://www.coachjayjohnson.com/2010/09/recruiting-mens-track-and-field-scholarships/
3) Creamytrack lists some excellent questions in his post. Ask questions about the school, training philosophy, red shirt policy, what is expected of the first year runner, academic and training support, living arrangements – anything you and your runner think is important in the decision process. Sit down with your runner and make a list of questions before each visit.
4) Most of the real information and feel for the program will occur while your child is with the team and away from the coach during the visit. Make sure he/she asks a lot of questions of the athletes. They’ll get a real good feel for how they’ll fit in with the program during their time with the team. Outside of the scholastic fit, this was the main reason my child chose the school he did. It was a great fit with the current team, and he knew he could spend the next 4-5 years of his life with that team and their philosophy.

Good luck to your child during this process…it’s an exciting, yet nerve-wracking time trying to sort it all out, on top of running and school responsibilities. It goes fast, so enjoy

[freebs]

Thanks for the helpful suggestions!

[CrocODile1]

The main thing is why the student is going to college - to get an education. Does that school have decent program(s).
Realize that over half of college students change their majors at least once after they start, so look at the overall school including the initial major area of study.
Athletics is secondary.
Don't expect much, if any, financial aid for track/cross country. Dig into all financial aid sources.
Get whatever the coach(s) promise relating to aid in writing!!!!!
Talk to the current athletes on the team(s).

What kind of REAL placement services does the school offer. Is it just lip service or do they really work to get the graduates into a job!

[OhioXCrunner]

I recommend every XC runner to continue competing in college, or at least try! Walk-on to the team.
Seems like every year ya hear about some "gem in the rough" who comes out of nowhere.

Sometimes student athletes are uncertain of a college major. One option to consider- NJCAA (Junior College) as a Freshman/Soph. Get a taste of life as a college athlete.
You get all the prerequisite "101" classes completed in a less crowded classroom and (generally) less expensive per credit hour.

To all those underclassmen runners who make state and are good enough student athletes for a college coach to offer them money, congratulations.
Your mailbox will be full, receiving letters from every small college around the Midwest. Take the time to find something out about each and every one of these schools! In todays time of the internet, finding info about a college is pretty easy. Instead of just looking at whatever college has the best results, find a college where you will be most comfortable.

Realize no matter how big of fish you were in high school, ya are nuttin' more then a minnow once college competition comes around.*


*Unless your Bobby Kennedy as a true Freshman running XC.

[creamytrack]

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=5728653

Story about even full rides not covering everything.

[Cash]

Just found out that some of you seniors have not done either clearinghouse: NCAA or NAIA. You can not take an official visit until this is completed and paid for.

This should guide you to the page, and has a few other resources:
http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal/ncaahome?WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=/ncaa/NCAA/Legislation+and+Governance/Eligibility+and+Recruiting/InformationforCollege-BoundStudent-Athletes

NAIA:
http://www.playnaia.org/

[creamytrack]

Cash,

NAIA is different than NCAA. Students can visit and apply at schools without registering with the clearinghouse. You can not be cleared for particpation untill the clearinghouse is paid for. So it is different from the NCAA in that reguard, but thanks for bringing both clearinghouses up as they are a step many students forget.

[XCspectator]

From Flotrack, an interview with the legendary Mark Wetmore of Colorado on recruiting. He matter of factly and fairly talks about the selection process and also offers good advice for athletes. Parents especially should heed his advice! Listen all the way to the end. The runner should make the decision. Parents should only guide from the background.

Another point I heard loud and clear and totally agree with is going to a school you can succeed at. Be realistic. You don't want to be the runner he talks about who trains for 5 years only to run in dual home meets. Look up some past Indiana HS runners. Maybe take one year, see where different runners went for college. Were they successful? Or did they languish?

http://www.flotrack.org/coverage/237926-The-Wetmore-Factor/video/365278-Recruiting-at-Colorado-with-Mark-Wetmore

There are many other interviews listed with Wetmore, links are on the page.
This one is interesting

http://www.flotrack.org/coverage/237926-The-Wetmore-Factor/video/365286-Wetmore-on-successful-xc-runners-and-keeping-a-high-level

[WadeEH]

My son had a prtty good XC season in 8th grade this year and has decided that he wants to focus on XC in high school and maybe try to run in college. I was just wondering if someone could give me an idea of what kind range would your 5K times need to be in to have a chance at a scholarship at each of the college divisions? I don't know if he will ever make it to that level, but we would like to have some numbers to shoot for.

[Prefonbain]

My son had a prtty good XC season in 8th grade this year and has decided that he wants to focus on XC in high school and maybe try to run in college. I was just wondering if someone could give me an idea of what kind range would your 5K times need to be in to have a chance at a scholarship at each of the college divisions? I don't know if he will ever make it to that level, but we would like to have some numbers to shot for.

There is a place for every kid to run. It would vary so much. I recommend aiming for places first.

[WadeEH]

There is a place for every kid to run. It would vary so much. I recommend aiming for places first.

I understand that and I know there is more than just times that go into the equation, but I was just wanting some very general numbers. Could you give me an idea of what it might take to get a scholarship to IU or Purdue? We have just started to look into it and I don't even know what other schools in Indiana offer XC scholarships. How would you find out who offers scholarships for XC?

[Prefonbain]

I have been fortunate enough to work with athletes between the 1520 and about 1610 marks who were recruited by respectable programs. IU and Purdue are very competitive in recruiting in state talent because an out of state school will need to offer about 50% to match tuition (not always, of course). However, it is also determined based on available scholarships. The big schools are likely fully funded and can have about 11 (somebody know the exact amount of scholarships schools can offer?).

[WadeEH]

Thanks for the info Prefonbain.

[Kerr]

I was just wondering if someone could give me an idea of what kind range would your 5K times need to be in to have a chance at a scholarship at each of the college divisions? .

I was given an email from the University of Miami (FL) that said to be considered for athletic aid the baseline times an athlete needs to run were:

5k 15:30
3200 9:20
1600 4:20

Miami is a D1 school and obviously these standards do not apply to every college but I saw this as a fairly good resource. I have also been told several times that xc times should be a secondary priority to placing high at State etc. Track times on the other hand are very important to college recruiters because they are uniform.