IndianaRunner

[Trembo3578]

I really don't see how someone could make a good argument for not acknowledging all 24 teams some way or another. The results are all computer tabulated based off of the chips so it's not like it takes an extra hour to add up 12 more teams' scores. It probably wouldn't even take 2 minutes to just list 12 teams and their places to the crowd. If that 2 minutes was still too much for some to handle, with all the technology these days, is it really that hard for anyone who has at least a little tiny computer competence to visually list the 13-24 teams on the screen? I drove down last year and I remember they showed all 24 teams' places on the screen, but not this year. My team wasn't top 12 and it wasn't until I got on the bus that I found out where we placed. Bad decision IMO.

As for the crowd control, I think this topic may have developed from a misunderstanding of my original post. I was merely stating that I didn't understand why they were so strict about clearing the course DURING and AFTER the awards.

[SJTrackCoach]

Our AD called me while we waited on our bus (long after both races were over, yet our boys were still doing a 2nd cooldown) and wanted to know results. He was unable to attend because our soccer team was playing in the state finals in Indy. When I said we did not know, but were outside the top 12 he was stupified by my reply. We did get a copy before we left, but it was not the most efficient process I have seen. I agree that the state could take 1 extra minute to display all team scores on the display board...and I also had a 4 hour drive back to South Bend.

[isuxcjb]

I consistently see complaints of how long of a drive everyone had after the meet. No matter where the meet is held it will also take a another section of Indiana High Schools "x" amount of hours to get home. I agree that all 24 teams should have been read, and again that is most likely the case as to why the announcer asked, because it seemed as he was guided by the IHSAA during the ceremony as it is a rather planned out procedure....but ALL in ALL this meet was what it was meant to be and that is the crowing of the State Champs and the competition was great as always, and everyone should feel proud for making it to the final point of the postseason, good luck to all in the winter and in outdoor, and it should be fun to have it back at Lavern Gibson hopefully, and that some errors can be fixed.

[CountryBumpkin91]

I think there might be even more spectators at the IHSAA meet than the NCAA Nationals.

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[TheChasePack]

Did anybody else feel that the course was not in the best shape possible (I.e. tall grass) for the state meet? There is always the talk that since NCAA's are good enough to run there, the the state meet should be there without a doubt. I think this is actually a disadvantage to running state at Lavern Gibson. I would argue that the State meet is actually the 5th (debatable if Intercollegiate is bigger)I most important meet on the course and is treated as such.

1) NCAA div. 1 Nationals
2) NCAA div. 1 Pre-Nationals
3) Nike Midwest regional
4) NCAA div. 3 Great Lakes Regional
5) Indiana State meet
6) Indiana Intercollegiate
7) NCAA div. 3 Great Lakes Pre-Regional
8) Indiana Pre-State meet
9) Terre Haute South Cross Roads


The course probably had 9+ meets on it this season. There are 4 other courses in the state that have hosted national championship meets (IU, Southern Indiana, Hanover, and Indiana Wesleyan) and dozens others that are capable (Purdue, Culver, IUPUFW, Cross Country Arena in Indianapolis, New Prairie, Northview all come to mind). Any of these other courses would be a big deal to host the State meet and in their busiest years only host 3-5 meets and will have at most one meet larger than the state meet. Why don't we take the meet to a location that will pull out all the cards to make it the best meet possible instead of at Lavern Gibson where State is an afterthought of a meet.

[Sycamore_scribe]

Did anybody else feel that the course was not in the best shape possible (I.e. tall grass) for the state meet? There is always the talk that since NCAA's are good enough to run there, the the state meet should be there without a doubt. I think this is actually a disadvantage to running state at Lavern Gibson. I would argue that the State meet is actually the 5th (debatable if Intercollegiate is bigger)I most important meet on the course and is treated as such.

1) NCAA div. 1 Nationals
2) NCAA div. 1 Pre-Nationals
3) Nike Midwest regional
4) NCAA div. 3 Great Lakes Regional
5) Indiana State meet
6) Indiana Intercollegiate
7) NCAA div. 3 Great Lakes Pre-Regional
8) Indiana Pre-State meet
9) Terre Haute South Cross Roads


The course probably had 9+ meets on it this season. There are 4 other courses in the state that have hosted national championship meets (IU, Southern Indiana, Hanover, and Indiana Wesleyan) and dozens others that are capable (Purdue, Culver, IUPUFW, Cross Country Arena in Indianapolis, New Prairie, Northview all come to mind). Any of these other courses would be a big deal to host the State meet and in their busiest years only host 3-5 meets and will have at most one meet larger than the state meet. Why don't we take the meet to a location that will pull out all the cards to make it the best meet possible instead of at Lavern Gibson where State is an afterthought of a meet.

I would like you to show me any course in the state that you could have cut the grass on the week before the meet with the amount of rain we got leading up to the meet. Secondly the course gets mowed on a schedule to do the large amount of money it takes to mow such a huge amount of land. Maybe if you think that the high school kids are getting cheated, you should donate you time and money as it is a non profit organization. Third, if this course has been run on for multiple national championships, why is it not good enough for the IHSAA. I guess the IHSAA should just move up to the collegiate level since they are clearly to good for anything the NCAA can do. And if you want to know why the course is in better condition at Nationals and Pre-Nationals its because of the work that goes into the meet by the ISU staff. Not to bash Terre Haute North but they did not do a great job protecting the course before and during the race.

[TheChasePack]

I would like you to show me any course in the state that you could have cut the grass on the week before the meet with the amount of rain we got leading up to the meet. Secondly the course gets mowed on a schedule to do the large amount of money it takes to mow such a huge amount of land. Maybe if you think that the high school kids are getting cheated, you should donate you time and money as it is a non profit organization. Third, if this course has been run on for multiple national championships, why is it not good enough for the IHSAA. I guess the IHSAA should just move up to the collegiate level since they are clearly to good for anything the NCAA can do. And if you want to know why the course is in better condition at Nationals and Pre-Nationals its because of the work that goes into the meet by the ISU staff. Not to bash Terre Haute North but they did not do a great job protecting the course before and during the race.

1) It could have been cut Wednesday, The rain wasn't bad until Thursday and Friday.
2 and 4) My point exactly, There is no extra effort going into getting the course into perfect condition for the State meet. I would rather have a second tier course that has tons of effort being put into it to get it in the best possible condition for the State meet instead of a top tier course that leaves the course in sub par condition so it isn't messed up for the meets to come. School like IWU would have put in the extra effort to help the host school with the meet. Are you saying that ISU does not care about the state meet? Why should state be there when the host doesn't even care?
3) I mentioned 4 other courses that have hosted national champions... why is USI not good enough for the IHSAA, why is IU not good enough for the IHSAA?

[Sycamore_scribe]

Did anybody else feel that the course was not in the best shape possible (I.e. tall grass) for the state meet? There is always the talk that since NCAA's are good enough to run there, the the state meet should be there without a doubt. I think this is actually a disadvantage to running state at Lavern Gibson. I would argue that the State meet is actually the 5th (debatable if Intercollegiate is bigger)I most important meet on the course and is treated as such.

1) NCAA div. 1 Nationals
2) NCAA div. 1 Pre-Nationals
3) Nike Midwest regional
4) NCAA div. 3 Great Lakes Regional
5) Indiana State meet
6) Indiana Intercollegiate
7) NCAA div. 3 Great Lakes Pre-Regional
8) Indiana Pre-State meet
9) Terre Haute South Cross Roads


The course probably had 9+ meets on it this season. There are 4 other courses in the state that have hosted national championship meets (IU, Southern Indiana, Hanover, and Indiana Wesleyan) and dozens others that are capable (Purdue, Culver, IUPUFW, Cross Country Arena in Indianapolis, New Prairie, Northview all come to mind). Any of these other courses would be a big deal to host the State meet and in their busiest years only host 3-5 meets and will have at most one meet larger than the state meet. Why don't we take the meet to a location that will pull out all the cards to make it the best meet possible instead of at Lavern Gibson where State is an afterthought of a meet.

I would like you to show me any course in the state that you could have cut the grass on the week before the meet with the amount of rain we got leading up to the meet. Secondly the course gets mowed on a schedule to do the large amount of money it takes to mow such a huge amount of land. Maybe if you think that the high school kids are getting cheated, you should donate you time and money as it is a non profit organization. Third, if this course has been run on for multiple national championships, why is it not good enough for the IHSAA. I guess the IHSAA should just move up to the collegiate level since they are clearly to good for anything the NCAA can do. And if you want to know why the course is in better condition at Nationals and Pre-Nationals its because of the work that goes into the meet by the ISU staff. Not to bash Terre Haute North but they did not do a great job protecting the course before and during the race.

Actually if you were in Terre Haute all week, it rained almost every night last week. While it wasnt a lot, it was enough to make it so they couldnt have mowed the course. And second ISU has NOTHING to do with the State meet. ISU does not own the course. They are simply borrowing it during Pre-Nationals and Nationals. While ISU is hoping to purchase it sometime in the future, at this time who ever the host of the meet is, is in charge of course preparation. In this case it was Terre Haute North. If this course is not one of the best you run on then you are all much luckier than I was when I ran in high school.

[xcrunner2234]

I love the way people piss and moan. I have had to do crowd control at the State meet and the NCAA's and it is a damn hard job because EVERYONE thinks they have the right to cross when they see fit. The problem is that the course at Terre Haute was designed for fans to get from point to point, and see more of the race... however it often means that people are crossing between runners and people don't always use the best judgement.

As for evening the Semi-States... any given year that would change... so you would change the entire state tourney every year so that you can get the state finals match up YOU want? Thats insane. If they change to a 5 semi-state system with 25 teams in the finals then fine but there is NO way to have a BALANCED SEMI-STATE... and yes the point of a state tourney is to crown a state champion... thats why it's the state tourney.

Ow and for all these post about get results... the results were on ihsaa.org within 10 minutes of the conclusion of the race. If you have an webbrowsing on your phone you could have known who won before the awards.

GROW UP. It's easy for you to set there at a distance and judge... those workers are there giving their time to the sport and the crowd treats them like crap. Have a little respect for the people who give up their saturday so your kids can run the state finals safe from interference.

Yes drew, now that's all fine and well, but your reading comprehension skills are lacking to say the least. No one is arguing that people should not be let on the course during the race, that is fairly obvious. What the person was saying is that after both races were over (during/after awards) the officials would not let anyone cross the course.

Your point about growing up is hardly applicable, since I guarantee (know for a fact) that some of the posters here are older and wiser than you. The way I interpreted Oldben's post was that the State Final should be about recognizing all the highest caliber teams in the state, not just one.

You blame us for not seeing things from your perspective, but you haven't even taken the time to read/understand most of the posts and see things from ours.

[TheChasePack]

Actually if you were in Terre Haute all week, it rained almost every night last week. While it wasnt a lot, it was enough to make it so they couldnt have mowed the course. And second ISU has NOTHING to do with the State meet. ISU does not own the course. They are simply borrowing it during Pre-Nationals and Nationals. While ISU is hoping to purchase it sometime in the future, at this time who ever the host of the meet is, is in charge of course preparation. In this case it was Terre Haute North. If this course is not one of the best you run on then you are all much luckier than I was when I ran in high school.

So does that mean that ISU or Rose-Hulman has no ability to help with the state meet? If the coach's at ISU asked the THN staff if they want help would they be turned down?

There are 4 other National Level courses in the State! I'm not saying it isn't one of the best courses in the State, I'm saying it is not the only national caliber course in the state. Lavern Gibson isn't that much better than other courses in the state that it is still the best course on a bad day.

And your post also leads me to believe that the meet being at Lavern Gibson is all about. I guess I should have known because that is what it is always about with the IHSAA. It is of course cheaper to rent Lavern Gibson from a private place than some of the other courses from schools.

[Sycamore_scribe]

Both ISU and Rose-Hulman competed in their conference meets on the same day at the same time as the State meet. So as for the coaches not helping, how can they help when they are gone and busy preparing their respective teams for conference. I'm not going to argue with you because you obviously are just upset and blowing off steam without all the facts but I will just say there is a reason why the NCAA continues to return to LaVern Gibson and not the other 4 National Caliber courses in Indiana that you speak of.

[TheChasePack]

Both ISU and Rose-Hulman competed in their conference meets on the same day at the same time as the State meet. So as for the coaches not helping, how can they help when they are gone and busy preparing their respective teams for conference. I'm not going to argue with you because you obviously are just upset and blowing off steam without all the facts but I will just say there is a reason why the NCAA continues to return to LaVern Gibson and not the other 4 National Caliber courses in Indiana that you speak of.

maybe you haven't noticed but there is an NCAA championship race in Evansville two days before the one in Terre Haute. So yes, the NCAA does keep returning to the National Caliber courses that I speak of. and Hanover hosted one either last year or the year before...oh and IWU has a few NAIA championships under its belt. You probably haven't noticed (or one of the people who think that if you are anything but a division I runner than you don't count) but there is more than just NCAA Division I cross country.